Offense and Defense
Carlsen Thomas LLP Now Represents Workers
As Well As Employers
Sacramento Business Journal
by Kathy Robertson/Staff WriterTwo Sacramento lawyers who represent employers and defend them in court decided 18 months ago they'd seen too many shell-shocked employees and wanted to do something about it. Workers who misunderstood their rights in the workplace kept getting burned in court by lawsuits they never should have filed in the first place—and folks on both sides spent a lot of cash to get there.
Longtime employment lawyers Susan Carlsen and Vida Thomas expanded their Carlsen Thomas LLP practice early last year to offer workers an honest assessment of their legal rights. If the matter can be resolved short of litigation, they'll take the case, too. They've helped 58 workers since then negotiate employment contracts, nail down a better deal on severance, or understand what they’re likely to be up against when they go to court with discrimination or harassment claims.
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Branching Out
Challenge: After years of representing only employers, the law firm of Carlsen Thomas LLP decided to sell legal advice and services to employees too. Avoiding conflicts of interest: The State Bar prohibits a lawyer from taking a case contrary to a client’s interest. Carlsen Thomas does not counsel their management clients’ employees, and stops short of representing workers in court.
Reward: The firm’s principals say that understanding both sides helps promote collaboration in the workplace. "I take an employee who comes in here very upset and talk them down to a more realistic place," Thomas said. "I've been on the defense side. I can tell you exactly what they'll do." Going both ways is uncommon. Firms generally do plaintiffs' work or defend businesses, but don't do both. There are occasional cases handled for a friend or family member, but otherwise the loyalty lines are pretty clear. "I don't know anybody specifically doing this," said Dick Osen, an employment lawyer at Mc- Donough Holland & Allen, Sacramento's second-largest law firm. "In general, you're branded as employer counsel or employee counsel. It's generally one or the other. "Obviously, when you specialize in a field, you learn everything about it from both sides. Therefore, you can do the other side because you are familiar with it," Osen said.
"It's possible, but the conflict issue has got to be significant," he said. -
Ron Martinez, a management client who is associate vice president of human resources for Sierra College, said, “The fact they provide plaintiff consultations is fine with me. It helps them better prepare."
Mind shift: It took awhile for Carlsen and Thomas to change their thinking.
Carlsen represented only employers for 18 years. For Thomas, it was 11. Both worked at the Sacramento firm of Kronick Moskovitz Tiedemann & Girard before they split off in 2000 to establish a small labor and employment practice of their own.
Carlsen and Thomas were used to seeing bitter employees in the courtroom who seemed to believe that the world owed them something. When anybody asked, they sent workers to other lawyers. Then an employer client had a family member who was treated badly and fired.
"Just talk to him," the client pleaded. "Give him the straight story about his legal rights."
They did. It was a good experience.
A few days later, they got another referral. This one, from a friend, involved an individual older than 40 who was handed a severance agreement, given 21 a days to review and sign it—and had no clue about what to do next.
There aren't many lawyers in town who represent workers on the legal wrangling that goes on outside court. Plaintiff lawyers like litigation, but have less appetite for spending a couple of hours to review a termination agreement, Carlsen said.
The firm charges $500 up front for an initial two-hour consultation. If employees want more—and if the firm agrees to take the matter—the extra time is charged at $250 an hour.
Employee consultations still represent a small portion of the firm's business, about 15 percent. But the lawyers say it helps them do a better job for all their clients.
"It's good for us to hear employees tell us their sad stories," Carlsen said, "and it's very hard not to ride along. You become attached to the person who was treated badly and had their world turned upside down." Much of the advice is the same for both sides.
Think twice: "Do you realize how expensive this will be, how much time it will take—and that you can lose?" Thomas said of questions she typically asks employers and employees alike. "Litigation is very, very risky. It should be something you think long and hard about."
Martinez said Sierra College uses the firm to do investigations of alleged discrimination or other violations of labor law. Carlsen Thomas comes in as an outside party to assess the situation. 'Their work is very professional and unbiased," he said.
Employee cases so far have ranged from wage-and-hour complaints to an abusive boss, but the vast majority relate to job termination.
Joanna Jullien used to be an employer client of Carlsen's when she worked for the Sacramento Tree Foundation. She's also referred workers to the firm for advice. In one case, an employee at a local nonprofit was overworked, systematically abused and stressed out.
"Susan sat down and helped the employee consider her options," Jullien said. "She helped her determine what was legal—or not—and then helped her formulate a plan.
"She breathed life back into her so she could go back and negotiate the deal she needed to complete employment and leave."